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Guiliani Is Not Qualified To Be President
Guiliani Is Not Qualified To Be President - 11/6/2007 (https://www.debate.org/debates/Guiliani-Is-Not-Qualified-To-Be-President/1/) Instigator: james94 (Pro) Contender: Crystal (Con) Round 1 james94: "Governor Guiliani is not qualified to be the president,he does not stand for the common folk.I think that he should continue as the governor in order to gain experience. He did not do anything to help the state of New York,when the twin towers fell on 9/11,but took the credit for the rescue efforts. He is for opening the border gates to welcome illegal immigrants which I strongly and violently disagree with due to the fact that they are coming from Mexico and Cuba with out legal documentation." Crystal: "I would like to begin with a refresher on the description of the job duties of the president, because I think many people forget the awesome responsibility that this office holds. Wikipedia defines the "U.S. President as the head of state and head of government." What does this mean? First and foremost, the president's role is to enforce national law. Article Two of the Constitution establishes the president as commander-in-chief of the armed forces with which he can declare war and is responsible for all of military actions both offensive and defensive. The constitution also assigns the president the following powers: power to sign into law or veto bills passed by both houses of Congress (which includes taxes, and government spending) , to create a Cabinet of advisors, to grant pardons or reprieves, and, with the "advice and consent" of the Senate, to make treaties, appoint federal officers, ambassadors, and federal judges. As head of state the key responsibility is foreign diplomacy. Based upon the above definition, I believe Rudolph Giuliani has the experience and qualifications necessary to hold the office of President and to be successful at it. For almost 20 years of his career, Giuliani was in the Attorney General's office fighting crime, including a time under Reagan, when he was named Associate Attorney General, which is the third highest position in the Department of Justice. He held the office of Mayor for New York City for two terms, which is all that is permitted by law. While mayor he was successful at lowering crime, reducing taxes while balancing the budget and decreasing the number of citizens on welfare. To top all of that off, he is known and respected both domestically and internationally for stepping in and leading his city to recovery after 911. Time Magazine, a predominately liberal periodical named him Man of the Year, He was knighted by the Queen of England and was presented with the Ronald Reagan Presidential Freedom Award. To sum it up, Giuliani has managed multibillion dollar budgets, thousands of people and departments, understands crime and terror and how to tackle it and has a proven track record of making tough decisions when it matters. I believe this is an outstanding resume for a candidate for the President of the United States and despite whether you agree or disagree with his position on policy, he is more qualified than most of the other candidates to hold the office of President of the United States. Round 2 james94: "Thank you for clarifying the status of the president . I still find that we as constituants of the USA we should be heard on the bigger issues concerning the welfare of the people. We are not being asked what we think. Rudolph Guilliani was endorsed by Patrick Robinson which will take votes away from him and which will give votes to other running candidates . Mr.Guiliani for the war in Iraq ,Due to the fact that heis for that he will not!get my vote. I have made an informed decision as should the American people.I think that as a young person who is going to vote I should be well informed. Due to the fact that he was Mayor of NewYork City he lacks the senatorial experience to hold such a high office. He would not be supportive of the middle class of people who go to work every day and try to eek out a living. Mr.Guiliani would carry out the former presidents policies which are royally stupid.I believe that he would not win the presidency because his points are too weak." Crystal: "I commend you for believing that you should be an informed voter. I agree that you have no business voting if you are not informed. Unfortunately, I think that the information that you are basing your argument on is misguided. The topic of your debate was whether or not Giuliani is "qualified" to be president. I do not believe you have proven that he is not. You have brought up 3 issues in this round that I will address. The first is his stand on the war in Iraq, 2nd is his lack of "senatorial experience" and 3rd your belief he is not for the middle class. I will start with the lack of "senatorial experience." I am not sure why you believe a senator is more qualified to run the country than a mayor. You need to explain this further. I will explain my position with the analogy of a corporation. A CEO is like the President or on a smaller scale, a Mayor. He is responsible for running the business. He has a staff that helps him run the day to day operations including hiring, firing, budgets, etc. The CEO is the one that is held accountable for the profitability and general well being of the employees and company. A Senator is like a member of the board of directors. Individually they have no power and even as a whole board their power is limited. They are more of an advisory board. More often than not they are on the board because of money they bring to the table, people they know or one expertise they may be able to advise on, but that individual would probably never qualify to run the company as the CEO. Although senators get paid a lot of money ($165,200 in 2007 to be exact) and are held in a place of honor, they are merely lawyers who pass legislation and can approve a president's governmental appointments. Did you know that in June of ‘03, CNN reported that at least 40 Senators were millionaires? Maybe some of their money was made honestly, but there are documented facts that some have used their position to line their own pockets. I don't think they were thinking about the middle class then. Unfortunately, Senators do not have a limit on the terms they can hold office. The longer they are in office the further from the people they get. I have a hard time believing that many of these senators are "for the people." They are not held accountable for anything except for how they voted on a bill. They get used to the comfortable life and get caught up in the power and greed. A Mayor on the other hand can easily be held accountable for the budget, for the crime and for the well being of the citizens of that city. Let's talk about your point that you think Giuliani is not for the people or the middle class. He is for fiscal responsibility and tax cuts rather than tax increases proposed by the democratic candidates. If you think those tax increases will not affect the middle class you should look back in history at how tax increases have indeed affected all classes. While Mayor, Giuliani cut taxes 23 times turning a deficit into a surplus and balancing the budget. This lowered the tax burden for the entire city. He also had a program called Welfare to work empowering the poor to be responsible for their own destiny rather than giving a hand out that keeps the poor down. When he took office, 1out of 7 New Yorkers were on welfare. He implemented the most successful welfare to work initiative in the country reducing those on welfare by 60% and helping those individuals get back on their feet and out of the government system. It looks like he is serious about the best interest of the citizens to me. Finally, let's talk about the war. I will bet you that there is not one candidate who if elected would pull out of Iraq. Why? Because they do not want to admit defeat on their watch. Giuliani on the other hand, understands that this is a war on terror and fighting the war in Iraq keeps the terrorists off of our soil. The media has not been fair in reporting what is happening in Iraq. I have talked to two US soldiers who have been in Iraq and they both agree that we can not leave Iraq until the job is done. It is unfortunate that there are evil terrorists who want to kill Americans and anyone who does not abide by their religious rules or gets in their way of conquering innocent communities but that is the way it is. I personally would like all of them to be eliminated before they invade or attack America again. It is also unfortunate that we have soldiers who have to die for our safety and freedoms, but that is their job. They knew what they were signing up for and most of them will continue to sign up over and over again to protect the country and people they love. These are honorable men and women and I am forever grateful for their love of our country and their willingness to stand up and fight for it. I am also grateful for a President who understands the seriousness of this war and is willing to continue to lead our soldiers on the offensive until there is victory on the side of democracy." Round 3 james94: "I commend the statements that you made on my three statements. First let's talk about the Iraq war .In our military we have men and women dying every day risking their lives for our freedom,but not for the lack of training but the lack of weapons.Due to the war the deficit has increased to almost triple the amount.This came from our government.We are not there for the terrorists but for the oil. If you recall there were no weapons of mass destruction found under Saddam Hussein 's presidency .He was tried and executed due to the president finding him guilty of genicide. He also threatened the current presidents fathers life. This and oil are the reasons we are in Iraq today. Let's talk about Guiliani's qualifications. First and foremost he is not looking out for the children of families on welfare. If he had cut taxes as you have very openly stated the rich people are exempt from paying higher taxes than the middle class .I believe that it is the middle class that is supporting the country not the rich ,since we pay higher taxes. Giuliani did not clean up the mess in the state of New York it was the new mayor who handled this proceedure.I believe that Guiliani cut and ran when 9/11 occured. He then took the credit for the clean up and rescue missions,which were not accomplished by him,but by the new mayor. Pat Robinson endorsed Giuliani, and now he is not front runner for the republican party.If you check the polls Romney is the front runner ,which brings me to my next point of view. I believe that we as young voters should get involved in the government . We need to tell the congress to let us voice our opinions on the big issues. Mr. Guiliani has never asked his constituants what they think, so that they can express concerns and comments." Crystal: "Since this debate is not on the war of Iraq, I am not going to debate it with you except to correct you with one fact. We did in deed find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It is a proven and documented fact. Why we are in Iraq has no relevance to this debate. Let's talk about taxes. The "wealthy" pay 80% of the taxes collected each year. Knowing this is a documented fact, how can you say the middle class is in jeopardy of paying the lion share of taxes? Now the "wealthy" as defined by the democrats is anyone who makes $150,000 a year (not really what I call wealthy in today's world, but that is their terms). The $150K+ group are who the democrats want to pay additional taxes, not just the 500K+ or the Millionaires, and they will not stop there! Cutting taxes helps to promote free enterprise and growth in business and the economy which will in turn benefit all workers including the middle class through higher wages, more jobs and better benefits that the businesses can offer their employees. More taxes paid by the rich, the poor or the middle class to the government will NOT help the middle class. It is pure economics and someone like Giuliani has proven this fact that less taxes means more money in the workers pockets which in turn helps the healthy growth of the economy. As for the tragedy of 9/11/2001, I suggest you read the Time Magazine article, http://www.time.com..., which describes how Giuliani was in the trenches even as the 2nd plane hit the World Trade Center, helping to keep order, and revive the city government and the various agencies. On top of that, he was a beacon of inspiration and motivation, a leader that could give some calm to the frightened in such chaos not just for New Yorkers but for our nation. Only a true leader can do this. Furthermore, Giuliani did not abandon New York. His 2nd term as Mayor was up in 2001 and as I stated previously, he could not run for a third term as stated by law. Pat Robertson's endorsement of Giuliani has no relevance to his qualifications to be president, so I am not even going to address this point. As for your last point, every politician I know has an address, email and a phone number and welcomes comments and suggestions from their constituents and anyone who wishes to address them. I agree; it is important that all citizens be involved in their government. I also believe most government officials listen. I have written many letters to many politicians and have gotten a phone call or letter in return 90% of the time. I think it is important though to point out that a good leader will listen, observe and make the right decisions, even if it is not favorable in the polls. I believe Giuliani is capable of doing this. Being a good president does not always mean being loved by the public. Look at Reagan. He was given a very hard time by the media while president and he was not loved until years after he left office. Today he is thought to be one of the greatest leaders of our nation. Why? Because he had principals and he followed those principals allowing him to do the right thing in tough times. We need a president who has principals and can walk the tough line in hard times all the while providing encouragement and hope of a brighter future. I believe Giuliani is capable of doing this." Round 4 james94: "I would like you to explain where the weapons of mass destruction were found. Thank you for correcting me on the spelling of Mr.Giuliani's name. Getting back to the topic of Mass Destruction Weapons I still do not know where the documents were given to the general public as they were not revealed. Mr Giuliani has limited knowlege as to what is happening in Iraq. This also brings me to my next point of view. Mr.Giuliani has no knowlege of foreign affairs due to the fact that he has limited access to the governmental powers. Governor Richardson has had more experience in foreign affairs than Mr.Giuliani due to the fact that he has been overseas.Senator McCain has been in Iraq and has had first hand experience seeing for himself what the men and women go through every day. Mr.Giuliani does not have this hands on experience. This is just one more example of why Mr.Giuliani is not qualified to be president.This brings me to my next point of view. Let's talk about 9/11/2001 I fail to see where you get off saying that Giuliani was in the trenches with the rescue officials.He was no where in sight when the twin towers fell. I still believe that he cut and ran.Due to this fact he I think that he would cut and run if the going got tough.On the left hand Senator McCain and Governor Romney would stand up and fight for what they believe in,more than what Giuliani would.This birngs me to the next point of view,and last topic. When Pat Robertson endorsed Giuliani he lost alot of supporters.Mr.Romney is the number 1 contender in this race on the Republican side . With regards to cutting taxes we would not be paying our deficit off but would be increasing the expenditures of the working middle class families. Also we would be cutting off funds for children for after school programs to keep kids safe. I feel that Corporate America is exempt from paying higher taxes which puts a burden on the middle class families who are paying taxes. I violently disagree with cutting taxes, because it will benefit the rich not the poor families, or the middle class families." Crystal: "I will repeat that the reason for the Iraq War has no relevance to this debate, but since you did say that you wanted to be an informed voter, I will provide you with some information on WMDs in Iraq. I encourage you to seek out the truth and not listen to the normal media channels that typically do not provide the whole truth of a story. They only report what they want you to hear. You can find a chronology of key developments in Iraq's WMD programs at the Center for Defense Information, http://www.cdi.org.... This particular article published by Rear Adm. (Ret.) Stephen H. Baker, USN . The sources are also listed on the website. Back to Giuliani and the topic of foreign affairs. Going to Iraq does not mean you have diplomatic experience or more knowledge of "foreign affairs." I do agree that McCain may have more experience with war than Giuliani since he was actually a prisoner of war, but just about anyone can go to Iraq and view what is going on there. Even musicians, talk show hosts and actors have been granted access. Whether McCain or Richardson or anyone else for that matter has gone overseas has no bearing on whether Giuliani is qualified. I would like to remind you that the United Nations is headquartered in New York City. You don't think that as Mayor of the city that Giuliani didn't have access to those foreign leaders. Back to 9/11: It is documented and there is actually video footage of Giuliani in the trenches covered in ash on that day. You clearly did not read the article that I linked in the previous round that accounts for this. So I will take out a quote for you, "He (Giuliani) arrived at the World Trade Center just after the second plane hit, watched human beings drop from the sky and--when the south tower imploded--nearly got trapped inside his makeshift command center near the site. Then he led a battered platoon of city officials, reporters and civilians north through the blizzard of ash and smoke, and a detective jimmied open the door to a firehouse so the mayor could revive his government there. Giuliani took to the airwaves to calm and reassure his people, made a few hundred rapid-fire decisions about the security and rescue operations, toured hospitals to comfort the families of the missing and made four more visits to the apocalyptic attack scene." Normally I don't read Time Magazine, but this is not the only source that has accounted for Giuliani's actions in this matter. This to me is "In the Trenches." Most officials would be hidden in some secure location trying to manage the chaos by using the eyes and ears of those in the thick of it. Giuliani was in the thick of it! I don't know what your issue is with Pat Robertson's endorsement. You have mentioned it in every round. It is irrelevant as to whether Giuliani is qualified to be president. Many people will get out and endorse their favorite candidate in a public forum for various reasons- usually personal ones that have nothing to do with the candidate. Taxes: I have already explained this but it does sometime require a class in economics to understand. Feeding money to the government via taxes does NOT help the economy and it does NOT help any class of society. There are documented historical accounts as to how cutting taxes affects the economy in a positive way, putting more money in the pockets of the worker and in the government coffers allowing them to lower the deficit. You will have to give me more than a liberal talking point to show that raising taxes has historically helped the middle class, because I can't find one incident where this has held true. As for after school programs being hurt; cutting taxes usually means smaller government and does not always mean cutting programs and even if it did- no where is it documented that the first thing to be cut is after-school programs. Furthermore, even if taxes are raised- there is no guarantee that the program won't be cut anyway. I am not sure I understand what you mean when you say "Corporate America" is exempt from higher taxes. Do you mean businesses? If this is the case, who do you think employs and pays the middle class and working class? The Businesses! If you raise their taxes it means less jobs, lower wages and less benefits. Before raising taxes on individuals and businesses maybe we should tell the government to decrease the cut they take on gas and on cigarettes, for example. Do you know their profit from taxes on these products (that comes right out of your pocket) is higher than the profit received from the corporations who provide the product? And you still want to give the government more money?" Round 5 james94: "Crystal Looking back on previous rounds I will restate my case. I think thatI have proven that Giuliani is not qualified to be president,for three reasons The first reason is that he doesn't have foreign affairs experience. The second reason is that as I stated in previous rounds Richardson and MCCain had more experience than Giuliani. Third is that cutting taxes would be a poor decision because of the deficit. Crystal, You have stated that Giuliani has been to the United Nations this is un true for 2 reasons.First and foremost the United Nations is for world leaders not for Mayors. Second he has limited access to foreign affairs documents which brings up the point of him not being qualified . Let's talk about Giuliani.As stated in previous rounds I still believe that the tax cut would bring us to an all time high when it comes to the middle class. Corporate America would benefit from this more than the middle class. IN conclusion to this debate I feel that we as Americans need a strong leader who will fight for what is right and just.Also I believe that I have demonstrated that Giuliani is not qualified for the job as president. Thank You for this candid debate." Crystal: "james94, First let me thank you for inviting me to debate you on this issue. It has been fun. I am sorry to say that I do not believe that you have proven your case. Your points are not supported by any documented facts and most of them are not relevant to the topic we are debating; which is whether Giuliani is qualified to be President of the United States or not. Personally, I think that most of top Republican candidates are "qualified" to be president on some level, but it is irrelevant as to whether they are more qualified than Giuliani because that is not what we are debating. To sum up my argument, Giuliani has a proven track record running a successful government. He is experienced in fighting crime and picking up the pieces after a terrorist attack. He has experience managing teams of individuals and a budget all the while decreasing taxes and continuing social reform. Besides Giuliani's practical experience, he is a likable guy who is globally respected as a government leader."